I hope this topic isn't too adult. ^^'
Well, didn't notice any other topic about sexuality, so I decided to start one.

The main reason of this topic was today's newspapers one text in opinion category. "Lapland is Santa Claus' land, not gay's".
One *CENCORED* wrote that "For thousands of years there's been one kind of family, man, woman and child".
Well, I have a question.. Who can prove that? For 100%?
Another quote: "They have responsibility to protect young people for this trendy ideology's".
WTF? Homosexuality has been in this world since Big Bang!

Well, I'm married to a man, I have three cats, two cars, own house, but I'm bi-sexual. I love my husband, but I have sex (With my husbands permission of course!) with women. Does this mean that I'm not part of any family? Am I even a human being anymore? Or am I just dog food?
My two best friends are couple. They're both women. They live together, they have three rats, two cats and one rabbit. They're going to get married as soon as they're both adults. My two best friends are bi-sexual as well. One on them is a woman. She live's on her own, goes to gollege and has one rag doll cat. (She loves her cat more that everyone else I have ever seen!) The other one is a man, and he likes men more than women. He's ardent Christian.
Does this all mean nothing? Are we all just dog food now?

After that, do I even have to say, what I think about homosexuality? ^^' But I would gladly hear about you. What do you think of it?
Is it really so bad as this *CENCORED* writer about thinks, or is it just as natural as blue sky? Because to me it is. Who cares if your partner has a vagina or a penis, as long as s/he loves you the way you are, and is a good and kind person?

I'm romantically straight in that I could never have a relationship with a woman. But I am bisexual in terms of sex. And I 100% support every person's sexual preferences. It's ridiculous not to.

Even if your religion says that homosexuality and bisexuality are wrong, well... my first recommendation would be to get a new religion, but even so, if you want to follow your religion, then don't become involved with people of the same gender. It's not your mission to go out there and tell OTHER people who they can and can't love.

The person who wrote that article... I truly believe that they're at the bottom of the gene pool. They are clearly a complete idiot. Bigots should not be allowed to publish their writings in newspapers, and even if they are, at LEAST offer a COUNTERPOINT by someone who is actually capable of rational thinking.

Trendy? Now that's an interesting way to put it. T_T

I couldn't care less about someone else's sexual preference (I mean, unless I like them or if they're hitting on me, lol). I figure it's none of my business to ask, or to care.

Tell me about it. -.-'

Same here. As long as homo's don't say that I'm disgusting, 'cause I'm married to a man. ^^'

Well, there's a little bit of dictatorship going on the newspaper at the moment. About a week ago they fired the new managing editor, because SHE WAS A LESBIAN.
There's been a lot these "Gay sucks"-, "Gay rules"-texts in opinion category. But this one was really disgusting. The headline insults all homosexual of Lapland! I don't understand why they published it even though there was this lesbian conflict.

Hmm. Your newspaper sucks. =P

Tell me about it.

I was gonna write a reply to that text tomorrow. -.-'

Ey was probably speaking about traditional/Judeochristian model of family.

That's because the person that wrote that opinion feel that eir own ideology is threatened. Ey feel that eir own ideology is no longer "trendy". Ey are loosing the battle and they know it which makes them panic.
Simply, they realise that they don't have control over their own kids, that their kids go to church and learn religion, but in reality are learning the most from popular culture :biggrin: .

Appearently the ancient Jews did care enough to write in their holy book that homosexualism is bad.

According to some religions it is.

Censorship of unpopular opinions isn't a good idea. One day one may discover that his/her opinion is unpopular.

If they fired an editor because she was a lesbian, then it's obvious that they are homophobic themselves.

It's sad that these aliens treat you like that :( . *hugs*

lol. But I LIKE Jews, since they leave all the non-Jewish people alone. And Jews actually have a LOT of laws, some of which we'd all find ridiculous. But those laws only applied to the Jews, and not to anyone else. In short, being Jewish means that people are stricter with you. =P

Religion is no valid reson for homophobia though. We have freedom of choice in terms of religion, right? Meaning that we can't impose our religion on anyone else. So there.

And you have a good point about the censorship. Better to let them express themselves openly than push them into the underground where they'll start cults and stuff. XD You don't have to agree with them, but you should let them talk.

And THEN you rebuke them. You write that reply, Neko. Write it. :D

Unless they want to create a country on your territory :tongue: . Also, the Bible had some pretty graphic stuff done to Gentiles.

Which means that you can't forbid them to believe that homosexualism isn't a "sin" or something like that if their book tells them that it is :tongue: .

Ooh, that's a pretty good argument. XD I have to applaud your debating skillz.

But fine. Whatever. They can believe it if they want. They should still shut up. D:

Oops, I meant "is", not "isn't". That's what happens when one rewrites a post a few times before posting it.

I'm bisexual AND biromantic (does that make sense?), and a member of my school's GSA (Gay-Straight Alliance). Obviously, I am totally against homophobia.

Here in California, gay marriage is legal; however, there's a proposition that's been...well, proposed...that is trying to ban gay marriage. This really, really angers me, because gays have fought for so long for the right to marry, and people want to take that away from them. It's really sad.

And Neko, go ahead and write that rebuttal! It's important to speak your mind, after all. :)

Of course that makes sense. You can always invent words. :D As long as people get what you're trying to say. XD

That's a retarded proposition. Fine, whatever, you don't HAVE to allow gay marriage, but banning it is just... bleh. I personally think it's up to whatever church to decide whether or not they'll let you. (although I couldn't care less what the church thinks myself..)

And s'alright, Delight. I got what you meant. =P

That's what happens when alien governments dictate what relationships between adult people are allowed.

How legal? Can there gay couple get married in church?
In Finland gays can't even get "married", the can only get "joined", which doesn't make any sense at all. It's still the same. And they can't do it in the church.. -.-'

What about the adoption?
In Finland gay's can't adopt children because "A child has their right for both parents", which doesn't make any sen at all (AGAIN!), because single parents can still adopt a child.
I hate that stupid law. There's thousands of orphan children in the world how would give anything to have loving family. When you have never been held, never been played with, never been loved, you don't care do you have two dads or two moms, as long as they love you. That's my opinion..

What do you think about gay couples with children?

As you said, it's not like there are too much replacement families for the orphan children. Also, in homosexual marriage, children have both parents.

That's the real answer to this entire debate.
Who your heart really belongs to is your business and yours alone.
what mankind does not understand, he fears and tries to destroy.
to all those church fanatics who say homosexuality is a sin, they forget to take into account that one of the ten commandments is "love your neighbor as you love yourself" so in hating homosexuals, they themselves are sinning. also, hypothetically, even if it is a sin (this is considering Christianity is the true religion) then jesus, the one who it's all centering around, said "Hate the sin, love the sinner." so anyone who claims to be a Christan and says they hate homosexuals or says that god hates homosexuals is a hypocrite and doesn't deserve to be affiliated with one of the most pure and amazing religions (when practiced in theory).
so...yeah...none of people's business...
personally, i'm straight, but i love people for their personalities, so i really don't care if any of my friends are bi or gay...except when a certain one slaps my ass in public :glare:

Bigots love to think that religion is on their side, whatever it is they're bigoted about. Whatever you think about Judeo-Christian religion, (I'm an atheist FTR) it didn't cause homophobia. If you don't believe Leviticus, et al, has divine origin, logically it was written by a human being. Why did that person call homosexuality an abomination?

On another note, heterophobia among gays isn't a joke. Biphobia is rife on both sides, too. Too many people have this stupid idea that bisexuals need to somehow "prove" what they are. If they try to prove it, they're sluts; if they don't, they're obviously uncertain about their identity. Get over it: plenty of people are bi. Some are obvious, some aren't. I knew a woman for a few years with no clue she was bi, and I'm one to notice.

NekoHennuli: write that letter. :happy: No need to be acrid, just point out that you exist, just like plenty of other normal people.

FTR, as for me, I don't identify with any traditional gender or orientation. I don't mean that as a political statement or anything; it's simply a statement of fact. If anyone's confused/curious, I'm quite happy to hunt down some references.

I am against homophobia full stop.
Even though I'm not openly lesbian/bi myself, I still get taunted a lot. Someone started a stupid rumour in school so I know firsthand how horrible it is. It makes me cringe to think about the poor people who have to deal with that day in, day out when I only had it for a few months. Some of the stuff my lesbian/bi friends have to go through makes me want to cry. But they have a lot of pride xD They're cool people.
But the other veiw I have is that people are too caught up in this 'straight, gay, lesbian' label stuff. People should love who they fall in love with, not what their stereotypes and labels say they should. I couldn't care less if I fell for man or woman; I refuse to label myself as anything and restrict myself.
I have no idea if that makes sense... It's a topic I feel strongly about but I can't put it down into words...

...This issue isn't something I think about that often, mostly because I spend little time in "society". But if someone's fired for no more than lesbianism, that's much worse than being fired over religious choice (yet people make huge, country-wide deals about that). -.-'

I consider myself romantically gay and sexually bi.

I think I know what you mean. E.g. you get some men who find themselves attracted to, say, a butch and then freak out with, "OMG, does this mean I'm gay? OMG, does it mean I have to be attracted to men, now?" :glare: No, it means you're attracted to a butch.

Labels are neat, but some people get too worked up over them.

Yup, that's basically what I was trying to get at. Thanks x3

Well here is the thing when it comes down to touchy subjectd such as this one. On both sides there are "extremists" that usually over-voice themselves to the point where they purposely make themselves out to be dramatic about the situation. They only do this because (exactly as it has been said before) they feel threatened about the other side of the coin. In my experience, these are not notable people. No matter what they say about any topic, saying something about a topic like this in a biast way means nothing other than their expression of opinion. Ignore it. Their openly expressing the fact that they hate what they don't understand and don't wish to understand it.

Their point is to get people excited and see if (in this case) their readers express an identifiable connection with the ideals of the columnist. There will always be people that will share the opinion, but the vice versa also exists. Understanding that you will always be who you are, no matter what these people say, is key. When I read opinionated articles such as these, i go into it knowing I'm about to get mad. But thats expected. People are naturally greedy and they greed power (in this case) by your hate. Forget it. You just fuel them.

Personally, I'm straight. I used to be against gay relationships but I've matured past that point. I still don't see it as right (I'm also agnostic btw), but thats me.

My point by saying that is that I have different ideas and views than you. Also, this person. You as well. With billions of people in the world, no two people will agree on everything. It's simple logic and it seems most of the world either doesn't get it, or ignores it. Both are regretable because situations such as this arise due to ignorant presentations of ideals. And if people would just understand this very simple logic, nobody would ever have to express their oppisition to your ideas with hate. Why? Cause understanding stuffs irrational action.

To end the rant: if you dont agree, somebody else wont either. If you do, somebody else will as well. Find confort in that because you will never change the thoughts of irrational and ignorant people. And neither should they you. Be proud enough of who you are to laugh at this bullshit and continue on.

Also remember people who express opinions such as these also hide their true selves to reside in a specific group of people who hate like they do. Replying with hate only gives them more reason to attempt lashing back out in a stronger manner. Don't give them air. Air is only fuel for fire. Snuff their fire and their powerless.

It would be simple if such debates would be just expression of opinions. The problem is that they aren't. They are skirmishes/battles about the shape of the future world. Which is where all the hate is coming from.
An opponent isn't just someone who has different opinion, ey is a physical enemy in very real war.

*Sigh* Yeah, there are lesbians who think men shouldn't exist and straight people who think gays eat babies. We ignore them.

However, it's not quite just about opinions when you're treated like a grubby little pervert who probably delights in corrupting little girls and boys. It's less a matter of opinion when this affects your financial security as well as your reputation. Personally, I've never been physically attacked for being different (my martial arts training might help), but I know of people who've been given these "opinions" in the shape of rocks.

So, yes, people have opinions but please understand how opinions aren't just nebulous, abstract things.

On the topic of homophobia, I'm sure you've all heard of what Amazon.com did.
Thoughts?
Personally, I'm disgusted, and I closed my account on the site.

So, amazon turns into a site for little kiddies?

That's.. Interestig..
*facepalms for Amazon.com*

As a Catholic, I am opposed to gay marriage, and find the characterization of those who supported Proposition 8 as motivated by homophobia an unhelpful misrepresentation. Christians are motivated by love of their neighbor, even in their opposition to the homosexual lifestyle. This is because we, in the same line of thinking as the ancient Greek philosopher Aristotle, believe that homosexuality is unnatural, and (in the biblical context) that same sex desires, etc., are part of the corruption of man's nature that coincided with the Fall, since they do not lead to the creation of a family along the covenantal model in Genesis. It should be remembered that good Christians (or more specifically Catholics) don't hate homosexuals (or bisexuals, transgender people, etc.), but merely disapprove of their actions as unnatural, in the same way they disapprove of artificial contraception, but don't have anyone just for being on the pill, etc.

Also, if you wish to investigate the biblical view of homosexuality as it informs Christian belief, it's best to read Romans chapter 1 and the other writings of St. Paul. Though the teachings of Leviticus are better known, they are part of the Mosaic Law, which is no longer seen as binding since Jesus fulfilled the Law, and St. Peter ruled that Christians don't have to follow all of its precepts in Acts.

I hope you don't find this offensive, but it seemed only one side of the debate was represented.

Speaking of "trendy ideology's"...

I have one question. Why do I meet tonnes of gays/lesbians/bisexuals on western internetz but almost none in Polish internetz/Polish schools?
It looks like a cultural phenomena to me.

I personally think homophobia is pointless. I mean oppose it all you want but noone can permanantly get rid of gays. I personally am bi, but I lean more towards girls. Being a girl myself that makes me partially gay. I also have 2 gay uncles(ok technically 4). And I mean they are very gay. Dancing to Madonna with their shirts rolled up gay. So it may be that I'm used to it. But still.

I'm at least bi, if not a lesbian :\ so uh.

I dont understand homophobes.
I'm not like.. a crazy lesbian though either.


like I dont broadcast it and hit on every female. lawl

Well not all girls who hit on girls are really lesbian or bi. They may(and I know some people who do this)be that way because guys think its hot.

^ that kind of bothers me though. xD

I dont like. kiss/mess with people I dont like :\

Yeah, it sounds depraved.

As much as I like girls.. kissing girls XD
I don't if it's for attention. :\

I went to a party and everyone was doing that
and this one girl kissed me and I was like "will you back off?" :\

but then with this girl I like.. we kissed and OMG I like died. <3

I agree. It bugs me, too.

And I found out I was a long time ago. Me and a friend used to play vampire when we were younger and we'd kiss.

haha! that's so cute.

I guess I always found girls attractive.
But I didn't know for the longest time that girls, could LIKE girls?

because obviously no one is going to teach you that.
like in third grade everything was normal and we pretended boys had cooties.

then as everyone else got older the girls wanted boys.
and I just wanted to stay with the girls T___T