So, I watched the first series of RM again and it made me wonder about Shinku and the Alice game. She talks about how she wants to become Alice and about how to live is to fight, but she doesn't really seem to be interested in the Alice Game.
It makes me wonder...
Was she waiting for something to trigger an apocalyptic battle between dolls or was she simply delusional?
I mean, she's friends with the other dolls and seems to want to protect them and at the same time dreams about killing them all and becoming Alice?
That's creepy*giggles*
She even talks to Jun about how she wants him to make her a robe when she'll become Alice.
How did she imagine becoming Alice?
Killing Suigintou and taking her Rosa Mystica, turning-off Hinaichigo and then killing Souseiseki and Suiseiseki?
Then suddenly she didn't want to kill Suigintou and wanted her to give up?

I think Shinku told Jun that whole "To live is to fight"stuff because she wanted to try and cheer him up a bit and convince him to get out of his shell.
Who knows, maybe Shinku really intended to kill off her sisters. But then she got used at living with them, learned their flaws and advanges and decided that being with her sisters is better than becoming Alice.

IIRC she said it in response to his comment about how having to fight ones own sisters is horrible.

I suspect that she isn't really honest with herself and others about some things. I think that she isn't really able to kill the other dolls, but doesn't admit it to herself and has delusions of being destined to attain perfection by winning the Alice Game.
The creepiest thing is that she speaks about Jun making a princess robe for her after it turned out that she didn't want to kill Suigintou and she didn't take her Rosa Mystica. That's a pure denial of reality :happy: .*giggles*

It seems that her resignation from the Alice Game in Träumend was more like acknowledging a decision that she subconsciously made long time ago. Maybe after seeing Souseiseki cutting Suigintou in two?

Probably the only moment when she could actually win the Alice Game would be when she defeated Barasuishou. If she killed her, she would have all the Rosa Mystica and would become Alice XD .

She'd still have to "fight" (maybe more mentally) now that she has to find other ways of becoming Alice. I think for a lot of the series, she was dangling between, "Is fighting my sisters just destiny?" and "What if I just don't have to?" Ultimately, Jun and Father convinced her of the latter.

Even if she did kill Bara Bara, she still wouldn't become Alice. There's still Kirakishou :P

That's true, but didn't she mentioned she wanted to end the Alice Game or somethign like that WITHOUT killing her sisters? Peach Pit must have something hidden behind that...

But then... Was she delusional in the manga? If she is then it's all p-pit... Because the one who made the story of the anime's first season wasn't p-pit... Suigintou wasn't supposed to die and Shinku wasn't supposed to be delusional but because the script writer wasn't p-pit...

Due to that, Shinku's character changed a little in Traumend, where p-pit wrote the script themselves... And that resulted in a huge difference between the anime and manga...

True. Still, she could have a final battle with Kirakishou and then become Alice :D .

I think that it's more a question of motivation than of alternatives. Sugintou fought to the death, because she craves for the Fathers love and was hurt by Shinku, Souseiseki fought to the death because of her strong sense of duty.
Shinku wanted to attain perfection. The values that Alice represent in her mind aren't exactly compatible with fratricide. She just seems to refuse to acknowledge that she won't become a perfect girl because she's not a cold blooded killer.

Well, in the first series she talked only about fighting sisters in order to become Alice. The other way to become Alice was mentioned only in the end of second series by Rozen himself.

Hmm...
Suigintou wasn't supposed to die? What's the source of this info?

Hmm...
Now I'm completely confused :unsure:

Overture technically never happened in the manga but it did. Same scenerio. Suigintou didn't die the way she did in Traumend NOR Season 1.

The ending of season 1 never happened. She never got set on fire like that. her clothes were ruined in another part of the Manga, thus she is shown to have a ruined back because of her wings. Her wings were born through an evolution in her Rose Mystica that was born theough her hate.

Suigintou's rose mystica had evolved into a greater power source. This is mearly speculation, but Suigintou's original power may have just been the blue flames but ehr anger for Shinku caused it to become tainted and her wings sprouted form her back. This would explain exactly why she has them and why the flaw exists.

Think of it this way. If suigintou was suppose to have the wings, then why, Heaven forbid, did they destroy her back? Something else happened for her extreme hate for Shinku in the Manga but in the anime, it's Sou's fault. Maga wise, she just seems to hate her for no apparently known reason.

Suigintou was a failure in the manga too, if i am correct. this would mean that this tainting of the Rose Mystica would be a very logical reason why. Rozen would have known that her body would slowly corrupt the stone. Yet, he ave it to her anyway for unknown reasons.



If my Tainting of the Rosa Mystica theory is correct, it would explain Kirakishou as well. She has ice AND rose vine powers. think? what could have happened to develope either or. Maybe her realization that she has no true body. The Mystica maybe tainted and the rose erupted from her right eye, and the power was born. This would explain why she thinks she so godly. Because she keyed into her darker self. She doesn't use her Ice powers like she use to. She uses the dark power that she finds as superior, The vines. Like Suigintou uses her wings instead of her fire.

This makes me wonder if the tainting would make their original powers more powerful, yet more straining on the medium. Because when Suigintou uses the Fire, Megu normally goes into a seisiure (( SP)). When Kira used the Ice powers, she would kill her medium, so she hide their bodies in her N-field. the deaths of her mediums weren't on purpose if i am correct. Kira seems to have a soft side for them as well as Suiggy. Odille seems like a prode and joy to her. but it is still debatable if she was only using Odille to get to Hina Ichigo. Corrine was an easy bait to use and so was Odille to begin with.


>< i hope i don't confuse anyone here..... I over analuze sometimes

So, basically, the end of Season 1, Träumend and Ouvertüre are something like an angsty-angsty-angsty continuation fanfiction with extra drama poured in?
Geez. It was the most depressing series I have ever watched.

Maybe she hates her for some petty reason XD ?

Thanks for the explanation :happy: .

its what i came up with that made the most since to post LOL XD

Hmm...
How long does she have those cracks? Maybe they appeared after she ate Souseiseki's Rosa Mystica? It gave her an additional pair of wings.

I have two theories about that.
The first is that Shinku tried to make her her servant and Suigintou didn't like it :P .

The second is that it's because philosophical differences - Shinku appears to believe in a sacred bond between dolls and Suigintou appears to believe that they were born to despair and be hopeless. She says that all bonds - bonds between dolls and their mediums and bonds between different dolls will be severed in the end.
That's why she didn't befriend other dolls and is ruthless and cruel. After all, all is set - only one of them will be Alice in the end and fraternization brings only more pain.
She's fatalistic, just like Souseiseki which makes them both "defective". Souseiseki feels incomplete and has dogged loyalty towards her master. Suigintou jumps head first into the Alice Game and enjoys it as much as she can.

That's because the authors of the anime had written their own story with random fragments of manga thrown in.
The princess robe talk was originally when Jun fixed Shinku's dress before it got washed and wasn't related to Shinku becoming Alice, but to Juns sewing skills. It was before the Stair Wars. Similarly, the happy doll talk was before Shinku got her arm back. I haven't seen such inconsistencies in Shinku's character in manga.

Exactly, she's not delusional in the manga, just the anime

What Darcness said might make sense too, in Ouverture, Suigintou sprout wings, she may just did the same thing in the manga, though, p-pit will have to explain...

The manga and the anime have different story lines due to that different script writers fiasco so don't compare it with the manga, it won't make any sense in the end...

No, Suigintou has had the wings since WHENEVER she discovered her hate for Shinku. that much, i do in fact know. Her wings sprouted and destroyed her back. because she had them before she stole Sou's mystica in the manga. Sou gave up her mystica to Suiseiseki to save her medium, but when she released it, Suigintou came from absolutely nowhere... and stole it right from Sui.

My guess as to the true hate of Suigintou for Shinku would possibly be that Rozen favorites her over the others. Because Shinku was born with no body imperfections, while Suigintou was born with a weak body. That is my guess (( since i read more today)) When Suigintou realized that her body in paticular wasn't made to hold Mystica, she snapped..... and thus shows wings and broken back.

as For Shinku, She does have noticable differences. She seems to act of nobility. This is so she acts like a proper lady. This kind of act was her own purpose of showing herself as better then her sisters because she doesn't want to act childishly, like she claims all the others do. This is obviously a lie to impress her her sisters. Her Love for father is kind of what angers the other maidens in secret. the twins in paticular.

Souseiseki KNEW in fact, that Shinku wanted to be Alice, but she was angered for her lack of earning it. Sou was irritated by Sui's want to be Alice but her caring fro her sisterss. Souseiseki turned on them because, not only did Sou have a different medium then Sui, but Sui refused to help her. it wasn't till it was too late that she realised that Shinku's way might have been the best. This resulted in Her releasing her Mystica and the gaining of it to Suigintou.

Hina was brutelly murdered by Kira, just so she could have a physical body. in Such, just to meet Suigintou. Kira even OFFERED Hina's Mystica to Shinku. Shinku thanked her for the Mystica but she was offended by Kira killing her. This annoyed Kanaria to the point of accusing Shinku of not caring for Hina. This set Shinku off. Since Kana and Hina were alike (( being the 2nd and 5th, and both Small)), Kana was Challenged Shinku to an Alice game. Kanaria won, but when she took in Hina's memories, she was mortified and pained by the hardships, feelings and sorrow that Hina felt. She was so heart felt, she gave it back to Shinku because she had gained a new respect for her. Being able to hold the pain of another and still be able to go on. Shinku seems to be holding out the sorrow, trying to keep it off knowing that if she showed it, she would be weak. She wants to be the strongest. She tries VERY hard to show that she will never back down if need be.

^^

Source or the Shinku hate-wings connection didn't happen :P .

I was talking about the second pair of wings that was shown with when she stole the Suoseiseki's Rosa Mystica. They didn't appear again later though.

I suspect that Rozen has intentionally made her broken, both physically and emotionally and reflected it in her wings and her dress. "Forced to wear the darkness. Marked with the reverse cross."

She still did it for her master. The whole thing was that she valued loyalty towards her master much higher than her twin sister.

Brutally? It was such a gentle pedo-kiss :P ...

Err...
No, she didn't.
Hina gave her Rosa Mystica to Shinku, not Kira.

Err...
No, Kanaria attacked Shinku, because she thought that Shinku lured Hinaichigo to the N-Field and murdered her in order to take her Rosa Mystica. She accused Shinku of befriending other dolls to be able to kill them more easily.

Kanaria didn't win - Shinku didn't fight at all. She gave the Rosa Mystica back to Shinku, because it made her understand that Shinku didn't kill her.

>< i really should reread most of this

My brain just died, you guys, LOL

Just, whoa, I'm not even gonna try to wrap my brain around all of this. xDDD

What Delight said is true, Shinku was given by Hina her mystica...
But back to the topic, Shinku said she wanted to end the Alice Game and God knows how, now that the manga has continued they have this "5 days to go" thingy going on... Shinku may have just found a way to become Alice... With Suigintou backing her up I think.. Or is it just to get baack to their world?

I'm confused...