Title: Pondering
Description: Salvation?
Pythos - May 30, 2009 04:52 PM (GMT)
Ok, I may be talking out the side of my neck on this one but, something hit me as I was looking at the imagery of Mdms releases, including the singles.
I am thinking Mana is presenting a story with his music. (That's a big duh I know).
Look at his first single release cover. It is him standing, with ONE wing of an angel. It is clear there is no wing on the other side. Imagery=fallen angel?
The next albums all have VERY satanic imagery. Fire, occult symbols, ritual sacrifice.
Imagery=being sent to, and spending time in hell.
Music is what the Un -initiated would say is Satanic sounding. Some people would probably say crap like they did about Ozzy, that if you listen to his music you are sure going to go to hell. (I don't believe this by the way for both cases.)
The following album is Nocturnal Opera, The imagery in this was both romantic and occult. But not so hellish. Perhaps on the path "to the light?"
Then
The next album is Beyond the gate. On the cover, Mana on a cross. In Dix infernal's images there is someone in white on a cross , following a picture of figures in black with white masks leading this figure in white, also with a white mask, in chains to some location.
Imagery=sacrifice, not sure what else I can say without bordering too much in certain religious beliefs this world holds.
Following this album is Lamentful miss. Something that is very evident is the lack of fire and brimstone imagery. Now with this the imagery is very "cool" to the eye. Gone are the searing images of flames. They have been replaced by moonlight, and foggy vistas. (beautiful imagery by the way) mixed in with feathers. Perhaps of a lost wing?
Then Dixandu. I found out that Xandu is the name of a great Mongol city of the past. It was described by Maro polo as a utopia. The word Xandu is a metaphor for Utopia or (get this) Paradise.
His own appearance on stage went from grim and foreboding black, to white.
His symbol for the band, went from a burning ring of flame, to a magical looking talisman in the progressive images.
I don't mean to piss anyone off, but I think Mana is indeed one of the greatest music artist to exist, if this is indeed what he has done or is doing.
If you all think I should keep this to myself, I will be more than happy to.
Perhaps I am making a spoiler, and might ruin the fun Manna has in store for his fans.
Also, please don't confuse me with some Bible thumper or something like that. I have also an interest in religions, and the imagery is uncanny.
:dix:
Izumi - May 30, 2009 10:15 PM (GMT)
If you ever join Mon+Amour... Theorizing about Mana goes out the window. Its hilarious!
Most of Mana's inspirations come from films, Anime and videogames.
He's a penultimate nerd with a really, really weird imagination...
Ever since I read an interview where he wished he was a little more "manly" I just see him like Son Goku.
Now I'm on the subject of DBZ... What an epic Dende pic XDDD
Pythos - May 30, 2009 11:56 PM (GMT)
Now that is funny to hear.
I couldn't help but theorize though, I was just noticing patterns in his works.
But what you said makes me wanna join M+A, all the more;) A fellow neard being such an artist. Epic.
I should clarify that I don't think Mana is telling a personal story about things in his life (though I am sure there is a tiny bit of influence in there somewhere), I was just thinking what he is doing is telling a story through music, and using himself to portray the main character when it comes to the images.
Then again, he could just be writing some really good music. :dix:
ilovemanasama - May 31, 2009 03:32 AM (GMT)
Oh my goodness. This is brilliant! I haven't thought of this at ALL, but it makes perfect perfect perfect sense! Mana just gets more amazing all the time :heart:
Thanks for posting this!
Astral Romance - June 1, 2009 08:13 AM (GMT)
I really like your ideas about salvation and i am pretty sure that is the truth what you say. I like how much symbolism is in Mana's work. I also have my ideas about that. For example, about Shadow X...
moidixmizer - June 1, 2009 10:10 AM (GMT)
nice theory pythos, it does make sense but there are a few things that i can think of
ok firstly, i think you've certainly got the theme of each cd spot on, but im not so sure its a story progressing from one cd to another. what i think is each album (most notably nocturnal opera and dixanadu) is a story in itself, not really connected to each other, like stand alone yknow? i remember reading somewhere that nocturnal opera is a story being told from one track to the next. and dixanadu is an album that makes reference to loads of different aspects of philosophy, like metaphysics, nihilism etc. but the thing with dixanadu is..you said its a reference to salvation, but when you put that into context with the bible thing, wouldn't that make it the end? but then like we know Mana is gonna release more albums and singles.
also lamentful miss is about a fallen angel, if we take that literally then shouldn't that come before the albums beyond the gate which is about redemption?
so yeah thats what i think, i agree with a lot of what you say but yeah, im probably compeltely wrong but thats what i reckon its about
Astral Romance - June 1, 2009 11:48 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (moidixmizer @ Jun 1 2009, 04:10 AM) |
nice theory pythos, it does make sense but there are a few things that i can think of
ok firstly, i think you've certainly got the theme of each cd spot on, but im not so sure its a story progressing from one cd to another. what i think is each album (most notably nocturnal opera and dixanadu) is a story in itself, not really connected to each other, like stand alone yknow? i remember reading somewhere that nocturnal opera is a story being told from one track to the next. and dixanadu is an album that makes reference to loads of different aspects of philosophy, like metaphysics, nihilism etc. but the thing with dixanadu is..you said its a reference to salvation, but when you put that into context with the bible thing, wouldn't that make it the end? but then like we know Mana is gonna release more albums and singles.
also lamentful miss is about a fallen angel, if we take that literally then shouldn't that come before the albums beyond the gate which is about redemption?
so yeah thats what i think, i agree with a lot of what you say but yeah, im probably compeltely wrong but thats what i reckon its about |
I think the same about Dixanadu. If it is a refference to salvation, it means there won't be more albums, ne?
BTW, Haven't you noticed that the names of new songs "Agnus Dei" and "Dies irae" (that means "God's anger") are just the sequel of the story.
I would say it is like this:
the first single: Voice from Inferno/Dialogue Symphonie- it is like a beggining of Fallen Angel's story,ne?. Then it is Dix Infernal. As Phytos has said, it is "being sent to, and spending time in hell". Then Nocturnal Opera. I think it most about finding the real love, that helps to get salvation. I also have noticed an interesting thing about the cards with numbers in the booklet... There are a few hints, like "The lovers", "Wheel of Fortune". Wheel of Fortune is a hint to getting salvation. Then Beyond the Gate. I think the gate is the line between the hell and salvation and the "DIX" symbol is used to show that the salvation is finally here. Then Dixanadu. And what is next? Agnus dei and dies irae. I think from now the story begins again. I think there it will be most about the anger of the god (that is interesting that in both "Dies Irae" and "Agnus Dei" we see the name of a god) and there will be many symbols of sending back to hell.
Sorry, it is bleh, but yeah.. i am not so much good at explaining such things in english.
Izumi - June 1, 2009 11:54 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (moidixmizer @ Jun 1 2009, 10:10 AM) |
nice theory pythos, it does make sense but there are a few things that i can think of
ok firstly, i think you've certainly got the theme of each cd spot on, but im not so sure its a story progressing from one cd to another. what i think is each album (most notably nocturnal opera and dixanadu) is a story in itself, not really connected to each other, like stand alone yknow? i remember reading somewhere that nocturnal opera is a story being told from one track to the next. and dixanadu is an album that makes reference to loads of different aspects of philosophy, like metaphysics, nihilism etc. but the thing with dixanadu is..you said its a reference to salvation, but when you put that into context with the bible thing, wouldn't that make it the end? but then like we know Mana is gonna release more albums and singles.
also lamentful miss is about a fallen angel, if we take that literally then shouldn't that come before the albums beyond the gate which is about redemption?
so yeah thats what i think, i agree with a lot of what you say but yeah, im probably compeltely wrong but thats what i reckon its about |
Mana said Lamentful Miss is influenced by Gegege No Kitaro, an anime he watched as a kid. Its an awesome anime!
And Mana said Beyond the Gate's imagery isn't in anyway related to the bible. Granted it could be interpreted like that but, in another interview he says that the interpretation is pretty much unique to the individual.
Pythos - June 1, 2009 06:26 PM (GMT)
Izumi, you make an excellent observation.
This interpretation I have is just my mind turning on images I see in his work. That is what an artist does, makes one's mind work.
That being said, I do not think Dixandu is the end of the "story". I think it is in fact the mid point. The confusion brought on by no longer having a master.
Beyond the gate is very much like the line between damnation and limbo.
There are other biblical and non biblical figures that have been crucified, so I am not really making a Christ like connection.
In the legend along with Lucifer, went other angels, to serve him as daemons. Perhaps the angel in my interpretation is one of these other angels.
But as is well known, it is all in the mind of Mana.
I just like to have fun and bounce ideas off others minds.
lips_blood_red - June 2, 2009 02:03 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Izumi @ May 30 2009, 04:15 PM) |
Most of Mana's inspirations come from films, Anime and videogames.
He's a penultimate nerd with a really, really weird imagination...
Ever since I read an interview where he wished he was a little more "manly" I just see him like Son Goku.
Now I'm on the subject of DBZ... What an epic Dende pic XDDD
|
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hahahahahaha!
Acacialazuli - June 2, 2009 10:29 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Pythos @ Jun 1 2009, 12:26 PM) |
There are other biblical and non biblical figures that have been crucified, so I am not really making a Christ like connection.
In the legend along with Lucifer, went other angels, to serve him as daemons. Perhaps the angel in my interpretation is one of these other angels.
|
right...we also know that he used the name Serina previously which is part of a chat to call upon the demon of ill-gotten love.
Maaya - June 3, 2009 12:03 AM (GMT)
this is really interesting! I never thought of something like that (that's because I never saw the pictures together! lol)
oh! and reading what Izumi said, I'd also love to join Mon+Amour, but I don't have money *cries*
BloodRoseBed - June 5, 2009 01:16 AM (GMT)
interesting povs...I nevr really think of that XP All mana does is so overthought...
Acacialazuli - June 22, 2009 06:58 AM (GMT)
Well, then there's the phrase, "Fated raison d'etre" (sorry for lack of special character-fu)
Essentially, a "reason to be" or destiny would by its nature be fated, right? Except that reason to be is often used in a way that suggests choice or like a source of inspiration. Like I might consider helping others my reason to be as a result of my hard past and the resultant unique understanding I gained. But fated suggests a lack of choice. Often with tragic undertones.
So, in Metaphysical, as a song, there is a lot of dichotomy around meaning and this is just another one of them. Yet, he chose that as the name of the tour.
Well, similar to the notion of salvation is the more mystical idea of the evolution of consciousness, often undergoing all the archetypal phases represented in the great salvation myths. (please note; by myth I mean the stories of great meaning and I do not mean to suggest that any given story of meaning is untrue by definition.) Mana has talked at times about feeling it is his purpose in life to perfect himself and always seek self-improvement. So rather than an external salvation, he may be describing a process of enlightenment and internal process.
If that is so, then even the attainment of Xanadu is not reason to cease efforts, but rather to extend the samadhi experience to every moment and then to uplift the world by example.
Just a thought...
Acacialazuli - September 7, 2009 05:06 AM (GMT)
This is only kinda connected, but I felt that it was related enough to add here rather than new threads or other places.
Lately a friend of mine from here and I have been spending a great deal of time examining and interpreting Mana's themes and I believe we have found some keys to understanding.
One of the themes we have been discussing is that of masks. In the image from the song Metaphysical it has the duality presented, which Mana is well known for, but this one is different because it is really not a gendered duality like he usually does. So looking at that image my thought was:
"truth is bound by innocence. Illusion is bound by attachment."
the true self is defenseless and open, gazing upward, while the surface personality has claws and a mask and is often out to hurt the true self for being so defenseless. People often defend themselves thinking they will remain innocent that way, but the opposite is true. As soon as defenses kick in, we lose our innocence.
Also...I was looking at the album structure of Beyond the Gate today...I was struck by its symmetry. This will be a new idea for my friend if she reads this as I've yet to share it with her. I think the symmetry of the album, with half the songs having words and the other half being instrumental is not just Mana being lazy and only writing half an album (really now, is that man ever really lazy?) No, I believe he intended the album itself to have that pattern to suggest the two sides of the human brain. The "gate" then would be the Crown chakra which is the gate to death or enlightenment. But it is different than "the other side" songs which depict which side of the brain they are opening for.
The other side in blood opens for the lyrical half. The reason I think this is that music with lyrics requires both halves of the brain to comprehend. Words are a logical phenomenon whereas music is an emotional/intuitive one. But then comes The other side of the door. The door here being the corpus callosum which divides the left from the right halves of the brain. By crossing over that line you enter the area of pure intuition and feeling.
By joining the two halves in this way, we are invited to join him in going beyond the physical limitations of our brains to the spiritual dimensions which lie "beyond the gate"
But that album was just pointing in that direction, we didn't get his take on spiritual truth until later.