I'm a new fan of Mana-sama, MM and MdM, the othe day I showed their symbol :dix: to my mom (so she could tell how to transfer it to a peace of fabric xD) and she thought they were satanic!
I told "no, not at all" I said her something like " it's a decagon, because of the name (I explained the name), and the same with the lines" I don't remember very good, but it was something like that xD

Thats a good observation! I've honestly never read into why that particular symbol chosen for Moi dix Mois was the decagon, but it makes sense.

Personally, I think a lot of Mana's designs come from his artistic interests -- He has a lot of theories on contradicting topics such as good and evil, light and dark, birth and death and so on. If you go even further the number 10 is also a contradicting number just as the rest of Mana's theories, such as how he claims the number "1" being the beginning of something and "0" as the infinite. The decagon could possibly be representing the number 10, as you said, but the lines also connect to one another showing an endless "loop" in a way. Another words, when you draw the decagon you have to start in one place, but by the time the image is finished it looks as though it has no beginning and no end.

Of course theres a chance the meaning isn't that at all in Mana's mind. However, at the same time there are things in the world of Mana that are intended to be left to the interpretation of the audience. Perhaps the Moi dix Mois symbol is another one of those things. Mana would probably love to hear the theories people come up for that one!

hmmm.. you have a good theory! and the cross in the center... death and birth (?) I suposse, as you said
and I looked up that on the internet, but never founf anything related to that, only to the name and I like "ugh!"

Call me stupid but I never understood what this should represent/mean/show ... O.o

I just thought it was lovely. XDDDDDDD

But in all seriousness, I don't know.
My guess is that its a sacrifice of some sort (obviously). Could there be some sort of religion or belief in the world that has something to do with sacrificing geckos/lizards? If we could get that far, we could probably go further in depth to find a meaning. I know that sounds ridiculous, but I guess you never know. XD
(or maybe its just simply there because it looks cool...XDD)

LOL, that might be (only because it looks cool)
it would be interesting to know, if it has a meaning (I suppose there is one)xD

lol the first time i saw it i though mana was rippin on the slipknot logo



it does kinda look satanic to me....

i think it's all about the gothic fact... i think decagon was used in goth arquitecture and other arts too much like pentagon (sp?), i think it supposedly means a deity or something. I won't call decagon precisely "satanic" cause they're more like a "pagan" symbol and i don't think pagan=satanic as some religions calls it.

Also, and don't want to start a religion debate, decagon is more a sacred symbol than a satanic or forbidden symbol like the other gothic stuff.

And what Sarah mentioned about the 10 is also very credible. We all know how much Mana is obssessed with 10 number and well, with gothic stuff.

indeed! it's really alike! I've never seen Slpiknot's logo xD

I smell a lawsuit. :K:

I agree with you, especially on the symbolic factor. I've noticed through time Mana takes a lot of symbolism that many people would instantly label as "satanic". However, if you really look into it, it doesn't actually have that meaning. There are other meanings as well behind such types of symbolism, just like the Capricus actually symbolizing "power". I noticed this especially because I had looked into the silver necklace I bought back in December from the Mana limited jewelery and someone from my mom's work (being a church) confronted me about it. I was glad one of her co-workers was able to back me up on the symbolism meaning, so certainly there is probably more (non satanic) meaning in such things than what meets the eye along with the "gothic" factor, as to why Mana uses them.

^i think it's all about points of view. I personally don't find gothic stuff as "satanic". The capricus... neither i do find it satanic, i also think it is only a pagan symbol, but that is what I think. I know there are much people who see the capricus as a form of Satan incarned and could feel "injured" by the pendant.

Plus i don't feel personally attracted to the capricus symbol, maybe cecause i have never get much into it. I didn't like the design as something i would wear, and so it means absolutely nothing to me. (and sooooo expensive :( )

Hehehe, mana has something against geico!Theymust have been bothering him with phone calls! XD

Also another thing to ponder about
is the fact that in the beyond the gate cover, he's in a cross with people reachin out to him... tis weird.. and I didnt dare put those flyers up in my room.. thats why im selling them..

i love that cover! it's a classical gothic image <33

Crucified jesuschrist with feithful pleading hands surrounding him. It's so touching. :heartbeat:

the last months i've been getting too much into gothic art and the most i'm into it, the most i'm fond of it :heartbeat:

Aah, but he said it had nothing to do with jesus or something of the sort... so.. yaw

Mana has stated time and again that he has an interest in the occult. There are MANY places where his influences are perfectly obvious to anyone versed in the Western Occult Mystery Tradition which is mainly derived from mystical Judaism and Christianity but which is not inherently either.

His symbols are in common with Freemasonry, Gnosticism, Enlightenment and Hermeticism.

The 10 pointed star probably is a reference to the number 10 being representative of the perfection of form as in Kabbalah or Pythagorean tetractys.

In fact, I would be inclined to say that mystical symbolism is as common to Mana's work as gang symbolism is to much rap music. It's obvious to those who know.

This form of mysticism, however, is far from Satanic, though his use of Baphometic symbols, as in the new jewelry he designed (I SO want that Capricus pendant) :love:
could easily confuse less informed people.

THANK YOU.

I will state that the Decagon (or Decagram, as K says it's their symbol of pride) has absolutely nothing to do with Satanism. As for Capricus, I doubt that too since it supposedly symbolizes sacrifice, as Satanists do not believe in sacfrifices (Laveyan Satanism).

As for Slipknot, for all I know they could've ripped off of Mana. They're famous for copyright infringement (Mushroomhead).

Capricus = sacrifice? i didn't knew, that's so much interesting!!

*goes to search about*

description of Mana's pendant.

Now i'm seeing the Capricus and cross pendant with other eyes.

*going to search more*

Capricus supposed to be associated by some religions directly to Satan incarned. Cause Capricus was the most important figure used in Sabbat / Akelarre's "witches". Agree to religion and the beliefs of that times.

As for paganism. Capricus was used for pagan rituals as a figure of fertility. Was
Pan, the greek god of fertility.

And so, i think, christianism used Pan's greek fertility god to create Satan figure just because fertility is related with sexuality and sex is immoral, it's a sin. And because Capricus was used on pagan rituals, so they had the perfect speech to call pagan ritual satanic.

I still can't understand why capricus and cross are a symbol of sacrifice, i need to investigate more for sure. And i will do it cause it really interests me. If someone knows about more references about this. I would be thankfull if you share it to me. ;)

I don't believe in satan, neither in satanism. Neither i do think Mana believes in it. But i think he MAY be using Capricus figure as a "satanic" symbol* just because he likes it. Just like ILLUMUNATI or even his own name "Mana" that we all knows it means "demon name" or something. And all stuff Mana does with Madousho, and the names of the events and all.

I just thinks he simply like these stuff cause he finds it interesting and so he uses it (that's what i would really do.)





*Notice i'm saying a "satanic" symbol only in the way christianism uses it. I mean, as an evil symbol, as the devil figure. Afterall, i'm agree with Acaciazuli when she says Mana's interested about occultism and stuff. That does NOT mean he's satanic LOL!

I just have to say...
I'm getting the feeling that the direction this thread is headed in is beginning to borderline discussion of religious ideas and views... I know the symbolism can have a lot of meanings that cross borders with various religions, but lets please not get too deep into that factor only.

Mostly saying this because I myself could point out a few things, but because I do not want to turn this into any kind of religion debate I'm going to hold my tongue. I'm thinking if I already feel this way I'm sure there could be a few other people out there (not willing to speak up for themselves) who could feel the same way as well, so be sure to keep these topics very LIGHT on religion. If you want to research Mana's symbolisms and various religion's view points on your own be my guest, but lets please try to keep religion as only one idea of potentially many other ideas.

Slipknot was way before Moi Dix Mois....
They (Slipknot) began to use the dec. since Joey the drummer began to use it back in 1996 for their logo design.
As for Slipknot "ripping off Mushroomhead" Slipknot had actually reached media status before Mushroomhead and had just happened to ride the Nu metal wave at the right time.

I used to help run a Slipknot site and used to be a big fan of them when I was young. x_x

But yes, I agree w/ Sarah. Religion is far too touchy.

:unsure:

i hope no one feels ofended about anything i said. I did it only from a researcher point of view...

it is true that some religions have issues with the occult and I only touched on that a bit. That said, the kind of occult Mana is interested in IS NOT a religion. He has said so himself and he has been explicit on this matter.

Just as some religions have issues with the way he crossdresses and music in general, some religions also take issue with the kind of occult symbolism he uses.

That doesn't mean that the occult in general is a religion any more than crossdressing is a religion. Mana has commented about his religion but I have no opinion on his religion, dor does it interest me. However, just as his particular use of crossdressing stems from certain historical Japanese customs as well as the victorian fashion influences, I also see his use of occult symbolism as pertaining to interesting historical and cultural references.

His primary symbols that he uses are rosicrucian, or connected to the Rose Cross. This is a symbol which has to do with seeing the perfection of physical form. To say that Mana might be interested in symbols that represent physical perfection is hardly satanic or even terribly religious, but it does stem from the occult use of the rose cross symbol to demonstrate the perfection of form and the cube of space having the rose of purity and desire within it. (a cube unfolded is a cross, that s why it can be a non-religious symbol) This is no different than saying that his fascination with coffins pertains most likely to vampire symbolism.

Historically vampires are very connected to the old coffin shape (no longer used) and Japan tends to cremate, so his coffin ring, purse, etc. is most likely a nod to old vampire films. Again, it is an aesthetic use based upon symbolic associations from history and culture. Not necessarily religion.

As for why Capricus, I'm certain it relates to Baphomet, not Pan. There was a skit in the MM days where Kozi posed as Baphomet:

in the back was a caduceus, which is a symbol of healing and wisdom as old as Ancient Egypt.


Baphomet is NOT a satanic symbol, nor even a pagan one. It's actually a Templar symbol and they were decidedly Christian. But even so...the symbolism was not religious but pragmatic. It represents alchemy. Traditional Baphomet has "coagula" on one arm and "solve" (Latin for "dissolve" and "reconstitute") on the other and he/she sits between the sun and moon. This is more like a secret recipe in symbol form or creating the supposed elixir of Life.

oh and unless you listen to Jack Chick....no, Masonry, Rosicrucianism and Baphomet are NOT satanic. LOL

edited for one final thought by a famous writer on the subject, which I feel pertains:
"To the mentally lazy or obtuse, [it] must remain a riddle; for in the
world mental as in the world spiritual each man must progress by his own
efforts. The writer cannot do the reader's thinking for him, nor would the
latter be any the better off if such vicarious thought were possible."

^ thank you so much for the info and the explanaition. ^^

OMG...I was showing this thread to my fiance and my daughter saw the thing here and said:

"Sacrifice, so easy a Gecko could do it!"


O.O

recognize this symbol of Mana's:

Rose Criox

Hmm.... <_<